Oil analysis

[Deimos]

A few weeks back I sent out an oil sample to be analyzed by Blackstone Laboratories. The results came back today.

My sample showed high ammounts of Lead and Copper. An indication, according to Blackstone, of excess bearing wear. I asked the question that alot of Modular people have in mind. "which oil should I use? 5w20 or 5w30?" They suggested that it might be worth trying 5w30 to see if the copper/lead ammounts come down.

Based on these results I think I am going to drain my current Mobil-1 5w20 and switch to Mobil-1 5w30. Full synthetic of course. Once I hit 4k I plan to get another analysis.

What do you guys think?


A short history. My car currently has 25,500 miles. The engine has about 21,000 miles old. I am the second owner. The origional owner installed an STS turbo system tuned to around 15psi. After he windowed the block he got the engine replaced under warranty(I called the ford dealership before purchasing to verify this) and then sold the car. All this with less than 4,000 on the odometer. Since I have owned it, I have installed minor bolt-ons and fed the engine Mobil-1 5w20 full synthetic.

NOTE: I have contacted Blackstone about the make/model discrepency, tho I doubt that it will make any differences in the analysis.

[boss281]

What prompted you to do this in the first place?

[Deimos]

What prompted you to do this in the first place?

This car has a history. I am the second owner. The first owner blew up the engine with an STS system. After replacing the engine, he sold the car. I verified the warranty(dont know HOW he got it covered) work with the ford dealer who performed it. The car has never really given me any trouble I couldn't otherwise figure out. Peace of mind really.

[ArtQ]

How did you pull the sample? If you took it directly from the bottom it may show what you indicated. Most oil sample companies have you pull it from the top with a suction gun after a warm up.

[Deimos]

I used the the procedure listed in Blackstone's website: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gas_sampling.html

I took the sample mid drain while changing my oil

[ArtQ]

OK, that should be good. Did that 4000 miles include multiple winter/cold starts.

[Deimos]

Yes it did. I think I see where you are going with this.

[2k05gt]

Okay some discussions and articles mentioned that Mobil 1 Fully synthetic are no longer 100% synthetic. I'll explain the reasoning. If you ask Mobil 1 they will still claim and defend that their oil is 100% synthetic, but if you ask them if they have Naphalene in their oil, they will state they do. Naphalene is hydrocracked petroleum, which ironically is what Mobil used as the basis of their lawsuit against Castrol when they sued them for claiming their synthetic is 100%. Mobil said since it contained Naphalene is in it they can't claim it's 100%. Since Mobil 1 lost the case, they started including it as well! It looks like AmsOil, Redline and Royal Purple are the only true 100% synthetics left.

Naphalene is what is called hydrocracked petroleum. Normally in the refining process of crude, they use catalysts to 'crack' the crude oil molecules. With hydrocracking, they use a hydrogen atom to complete this process. It makes the final product better with improved lubrication properties than catalytic cracked oils (conventional motor oils) but still do not come close to the protection and temp max and min of pure, 100% synthetic. Essentially, Naphalene is an improved conventional motor oil. These porducts contain something in the area of 5%. Not a large amount, but your still paying the same for 95% synth as you were for 100%, but in the same regard, their costs of supplies has gone down as well since hydrocracked petroleum is cheaper to produce/obtain than synthetic oils. So you probably paying 10% oor more for 5% less benefit versus the same product without the HC petro. I don't think it is a big enough difference in the long run unless you run over the recommended change intervals. The problem with this is that most consumers do NOT know that they are no longer getting 100% synthetic.

For a comparison of the two refining methods/end products (refining versus hydrocracked) check this link:

http://www.boucherandjones.com/hydrocracking.htm

Mobil 1 is a Group III PAO and Contains Petroleum that why they do not state on the Bottle 100% synthetic, it says FULLY Synthetic this Legal wording allows them to still state synthetc yet still remain a Group III.

The suit (complaint actually) was made with the National Advertising Division (part of BBB), this is a short description of the findings:

http://www.caru.org/nad99/0401.asp

I did find this great article on the whole deal and it also contains great info on Synthetics:

http://www.pecuniary.com/newsletters...csdefined.html


So Although M1 is not 100% it still is a superior Group III Oil, but IMO it is also an over priced Group III. I Only use 100% Synthetics, always have and always will.

[ArtQ]

Yes it did. I think I see where you are going with this.

The important thing about using oil sample info is to pull enough samples at about the same mileage to "trend" your results, factor in the type of use and go from there.

[Deimos]

Scott,

Two of your links are broken. The intent of my OP wasn't to get into a religous battle of oil brands. It was simply to discuss viscosity.

[1320PNY]

So I'm a little late to the party, but I've got good info...


Well, I work for a company that has an oil analysis lab. I have taken advantage of this and tracked ALL my oil changes.

Good News - up to 5K you're going to see Copper and some wear metals from break in on the 281 3V motor.

DO NOT switch to 5W30. To advise you to deviate from factory spec is INSANE. Unless you're Jack Roush, keep it within the manual.

The Ford Factory Fill, Motorcraft semi-synthetic oil is fine for 5K of abuse. The thing to watch is your TBN. This is the Total Base Number which shows the breakdown in your oil due to fuel dilution and acid buildup. Ford factory fill comes at 7.2. After punishing my car for 3500 miles I had over 5.8 left (bad is less than 2.0). After 5K I had above 5 left.

I have a PDF of all my analysis, but since I'm new here, I'm not linking to my personal site just yet. PM me and I'll send you the file.

[2k05gt]

Hey, Welcome and great information.
So even with 70K + miles do not move up to 5w30? I was thinking that with wear that the tolerances are farther from factory spec. I still run 5W20 Royal Purple and have since the day I bought the car.

[1320PNY]

No need to make changes. There are three levels of lubrication.

1.) Thin film - your metal parts are separated by fluid film

2.) Boundry Layer - your metal parts are contacting, but have a surface layer of additive (add pack) as a microstructure barrier to reduce friction.

3.) Elasto Hydrodynamic - fluid flows over itself at a high rate to ensure you don't have hydraulic lock. This is important to note when you want to use higher viscosity fluids in an engineered system.

Whey you start "upping" the vis. (5W-30) you are asking a higher viscosity fluid to travel at a high rate of speed through small clearances. The reason our little engines bang out high HP is due to the lack of fluid friction. Windage trays, qualifying oils, and other tricks were ways of increasing power in the past. Ford did a bunch of work to tighten up the tolerance and allow you to use 5W-20 and gain an edge in the Horsepower wars.

If you use a higher viscosity fluid and run it at high RPMs you are going to add an additional hydraulic load and effectively reduce power and increase load. We have test vehicles running over 400K miles and the cams and rotating assemblies tested within factory specification at 300K miles. I doubt 70K miles of wear can be fixed with just a vis. bump. If you got drama, you need new parts. If you don't got drama, keep on keepin on.

Oil Analysis (http://www.beauchampengineering.net/analysis.html)

[2k05gt]

No need to make changes. There are three levels of lubrication.

1.) Thin film - your metal parts are separated by fluid film

2.) Boundry Layer - your metal parts are contacting, but have a surface layer of additive (add pack) as a microstructure barrier to reduce friction.

3.) Elasto Hydrodynamic - fluid flows over itself at a high rate to ensure you don't have hydraulic lock. This is important to note when you want to use higher viscosity fluids in an engineered system.

Whey you start "upping" the vis. (5W-30) you are asking a higher viscosity fluid to travel at a high rate of speed through small clearances. The reason our little engines bang out high HP is due to the lack of fluid friction. Windage trays, qualifying oils, and other tricks were ways of increasing power in the past. Ford did a bunch of work to tighten up the tolerance and allow you to use 5W-20 and gain an edge in the Horsepower wars.

If you use a higher viscosity fluid and run it at high RPMs you are going to add an additional hydraulic load and effectively reduce power and increase load. We have test vehicles running over 400K miles and the cams and rotating assemblies tested within factory specification at 300K miles. I doubt 70K miles of wear can be fixed with just a vis. bump. If you got drama, you need new parts. If you don't got drama, keep on keepin on.

Oil Analysis (http://www.beauchampengineering.net/analysis.html)

Good Info,
I have not had a problem so far, I do have 70K miles and ran over 300 passes down the 1320 and 660 and still run 12.4 Averages and 109 mph
My Tranny is feeling the stress more than the engine, I don't know if it's due to the fact that I use 100% Synthetc Group IV PAO or if the engine ford builds is just better than most

[MarcSpaz]

Man, that is good info. I have 5-30 in my car now (after the top-end rebuild), but it sounds like on the next change I am going to put in a new filter and the 5-20.

[Deimos]

Welcome to the boards!

Good News - up to 5K you're going to see Copper and some wear metals from break in on the 281 3V motor.

That's good to hear and expected but I have 25k on this motor. In any event I am not too worried.

DO NOT switch to 5W30. To advise you to deviate from factory spec is INSANE. Unless you're Jack Roush, keep it within the manual.

[citation needed]