C&L pics (cross posted on forums)

[boss281]

Here you go fellas.


The latest change prior to the intalling this manifold were the Steeda delete plates, and a new tune was developed the other day. No dyno yet. The car will be run hard at a track rental tomorrow, then I drop the car off next week with JJ at Woodbine Motorsports in MD. He'll dyno it to see what the plates did (good or bad), then put in the manifold and redyno so we can compare with the delete plates and prior to the delete plates. I intend to race next Friday or Saturday, weather permitting to see what I might get out of the manifold, especially at high rpms...


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t32/jwgroovin/CANDLManifold/100_1453.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t32/jwgroovin/CANDLManifold/100_1452.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t32/jwgroovin/CANDLManifold/100_1454.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t32/jwgroovin/CANDLManifold/100_1455.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t32/jwgroovin/CANDLManifold/100_1456.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t32/jwgroovin/CANDLManifold/100_1457.jpg

[chad05gt]

the force is strong with this one...


I couldnt NOT install!!

[boss281]

Patience grasshopper. It's important to document the changes between mods...

[MarcSpaz]

Looks Sweet! Good luck this weekend. Let us know how it goes.

[chad05gt]

Patience grasshopper. It's important to document the changes between mods...



"...not when one of the mods you KNOW you're not going to use!", said grasshopper.:p

[ArtQ]

I know where John is going with this. He (as well as others) bring up the fact that the C&L does not use the CMCV"s. If he puts the manifold on with out trying the delete plates and picks up X amount from the manifold it does not show what the gain would be for guys with deletes already. John had the plates laying around and decided to run them before the manifold, which I find quite gratious, as like Chad said, he's not going to use them. So the way John has it worked out, we will learn more about the gains from both mods.

[boss281]

Gains or losses. While the car really felt strong in 3rd screaming for the finish today, the new tune felt a bit light at launch. I'm wondering if this next dyno read will actually be lower than my last 348hp with the stock cmcv's...

[boss281]

Actually Art, after looking at the timeslips a bit more they seem to indicate I was actually performing today with the delete plates the new performance tune done up this week. What I took for a little bogging at launch may have been the larger tires 295/45-17 vs last year's 275/40-17 and me absentmindedly leaving the shock at the softest setting on the right. I didn't follow all what JJ told me about his new tune but he mentioned throwing more timing at it, but it was a complete night and day feel in third. The car kept pulling hard as hell to 6500rpm for the shift to 4th. I can't stop thinking about it all and would love to be able to test that in cooler weather, but we know I can't wait till fall for this manifold.

[boss281]

Dyno'd, installed, redyno'd: I'm not so thrilled, although I don't have a drag run to compare yet. Because of the internet traffic, I will be publishing the results on The Mustang Source tomorrow night after sitting down with JJ to discuss the car's build, tunes, ETs, etc. We want to tell the complete story so folks can form their own opinions, and updates will be made to the project file after racing next weekend, weather permitting.

John

[MarcSpaz]

We don't get results here? :(

[boss281]

Yeah, of course, but our site isn't heavily trafficked yet, so I picked one that did. I'll cross post back here as well.

[MarcSpaz]

Okay! :D I'm easy to please. LOL



BTW, you are fun to tease... :p You play right into my trap. hahahahha

[boss281]

You're funny. Where did I say I'd tell the TRUTH?!?!?

[MarcSpaz]

AAAhhhh, now I got you. Tell everyone they are crap... keep the upper hand. I like the way you think. LOL

[boss281]

Actually, the truth will hurt. The best pull appears to be a 2hp gain. We're also thinking my 348 pull prior before the delete plates is an aberration, and have better figures to explain the mod/hp increases. I should have all that data up by midafternoon. After hearing the news I really didn't want any of the specifics beyond that until I could get over there and we could lay out the timeline, mods, dynos, track runs, and see what's what...we may have some clear indications you REALLY shouldn't believe all you read. I know C&L has a great rep, but, well, we're a bit stumped.

JJ will be calling some folks, and we should probably ping Lee at C&L as a courtesy as well. One thing JJ pointed out: the track will tell the story. If the car gains a few easy tenths, then we know we have value. if I have to fight for my personal best, then the value is dubious, at least with my NA configuration.

Enough, I want to post data on this, not my rant...

[rygen]

Screw the dyno, I say get it to the track and see what it does.

[JJ@WMS]

The track results will tell the full story. The car has much better throttle response and on the dyno you can hear the air flowing thru this new manifold past the throttle body, it even has a little whistle at idle also.

IMHO this unit is most likely better suited for forced induction applications, even if you could get 20hp from this unit on an N/A car on a good day the weight addition to the wrong end of the vehicle is a wash.

JJ@WMS

[rygen]

How heavy is this intake?

[ArtQ]

Well, between John (Boss281)and Ted(Germanshepard) it is looking a bit grim for the N/A guys. I agree track times are needed to finish off the initial testing properly.
Does anyone remember the long read that C&L had up on their site prior to release? It basically said that most significant gains would come on a FI set-up and not to expect a lot from a N/A application. I know most of that info was lost when reports through the grapevine started to surface that it may be worth at least 20HP. For now though 2-9HP and an additional 40 lbs is not what I would call stellar. Hope there's a simple explanation for this but not getting my hopes up at this point. Thanks go out to you guys for taking the time and making the effort...............

[boss281]

When I prepurchased this I was taking a gamble on C&L, a reputable company owned and backed by a decent honorable man. The magazine article came later, and only fueled the excitement for me--Lee Bender of course had nothing to do with the numbers other than his own in-house observation on a single car (which is the part I'm having so much trouble digesting). Of course, my car's efficiency was already pushing the max through stock heads, so I lost the gamble. But germanshepard has Fox Lake heads, and he LOST power. He's pulled the unit and trying to sell it already, without a pass at the track. I'm sure I'll find an FI guy who will give it a shot for $500. but before I do that, I want to give it a chance at the track.

[chad05gt]

The BEST thing comming from this... they know what dosent work.. in a year or so, someone will have a good upgrade... I forsee these little motors being (hopefully) like the 5.0's and having an aftermarket for years to come.

Now, even if there is a gain, it looks to be worth while to buy a couple stock intakes on ebay and find a porting to equal the runner vol/velocity b/c it will not be nowhere near the 25+HP... Wouldnt it be great to find one for head/cam guys that would loose 10hp but gain 30+ft/lbs:D

We'd ALL love some 340ish hp/ 360ish tq numbers!!:D 340

Well, we all have something else to use the intake/tune $ for summer! LOL;)

[MarcSpaz]

I would gladly take a hit in 10-15 hp to gain 30 rwtq. No doubt in my mind about that...

[chad05gt]

.. longer runners usually equate to more tq/ lower hp.. what if we (I) used 2 sets of plates :D ... Im feelin' crafty...

[boss281]

JJ is discussing things with C&L right now, and we'll see how they hope to address the field observations. JJ said Lee is committed to making things right for folks that bought this engineering run...

[2005mach1]

any updates?

anyone try stacking or spaceing the stock intake for longer runner

[chad05gt]

any updates?

anyone try stacking or spaceing the stock intake for longer runner

not runner, but plenum volume/velocity is the issue being delt with...