General Rules Discussion.

[2k05gt]

Final rules and classes have been posted as of 5/1/09

Keep in mind that after revisions take place, some responses may not appear to be relevant to current rules.

[qwik huh]

PS specifies stock type exhaust. I have a BBK high flow x pipe with cats on my 05. Is that legal? It is a stock type part and retains the cats.

[ArtQ]

PS specifies stock type exhaust. I have a BBK high flow x pipe with cats on my 05. Is that legal? It is a stock type part and retains the cats.


Bill, PM me with a complete Mod list

[qwik huh]

Bill, PM me with a complete Mod list


I can do that but that doesn't answer my question. My current mod list is not legal for PS but I am considering de-modding a bit to run the class. I just want verification on stock TYPE exhaust?

I would be 3650 with me in it. JLT, CJPP tune, Borla FRPP axle back, BBK X with cats, BMR lowers, MT 275 40 17s on 17x8 wheels, aluminum DS, Pro 5.0 shifter. Based on what is written I would be legal for PS right?

[ArtQ]

I can do that but that doesn't answer my question. My current mod list is not legal for PS but I am considering de-modding a bit to run the class. I just want verification on stock TYPE exhaust?

I would be 3650 with me in it. JLT, CJPP tune, Borla FRPP axle back, BBK X with cats, BMR lowers, MT 275 40 17s on 17x8 wheels, aluminum DS, Pro 5.0 shifter. Based on what is written I would be legal for PS right?

If you re-install the factory 2 piece drive shaft you would be legal.

[Deimos]

I had similar concers regarding running in PS with an Adjustible UCA and LCA relocation brackets. I made the mods to my car to put the rear suspension back in line after installing Lowering springs. I was especially concerned to see that I cannot run LCA relocation brackets and be in the Pure Street class. I feel that this would put anyone with lowering springs at a disadvantage to those who did not lower their cars.

[qwik huh]

I had similar concers regarding running in PS with an Adjustible UCA and LCA relocation brackets. I made the mods to my car to put the rear suspension back in line after installing Lowering springs. I was especially concerned to see that I cannot run LCA relocation brackets and be in the Pure Street class. I feel that this would put anyone with lowering springs at a disadvantage to those who did not lower their cars.

I think the thought process there was the gains the serious cars will see from control arms. I know my car picked up .2 just from new unadjusted arms. In general a car with lowering springs specifically designed to simply lower ride height would be at a disadvantage already compared to stock springs which will transfer weight better.

[Deimos]

My point was that Lowering springs are allowed but the equipment in order to bring the suspension back into allignment are not in regards to Pure street. Logically it does not make sense.

[qwik huh]

My point was that Lowering springs are allowed but the equipment in order to bring the suspension back into allignment are not in regards to Pure street. Logically it does not make sense.


It makes sense for the potential the suspension mods would have in reducing your ET but I understand what you are saying. To get a correct alignment on a lowered car you should have an adjustable panhard which is also illegal.

I don't understand why I can delete my sway bar in ST but I cannot run a sway bar delete :)

Making rules for classes is a truely thankless job. I have been there and making everybody happy is impossible. I am just being like any other racer and looking for the best advantage I can find in the rules. There are quite a few loopholes I can see already and I am sure others will find them as well :)

[MarcSpaz]

This is all good feedback guys. We are not 100% locked in to classes. We will be as we get closer to the event date to ensure everyone gets a chance to get settled into a class. But if we need to dial things in to make more sense and better use of the classes, we will.

[boss281]

There are quite a few loopholes I can see already and I am sure others will find them as well :)

You're scaring me now Bill...

John

[Deimos]

It makes sense for the potential the suspension mods would have in reducing your ET but I understand what you are saying. To get a correct alignment on a lowered car you should have an adjustable panhard which is also illegal.

I don't understand why I can delete my sway bar in ST but I cannot run a sway bar delete :)

Making rules for classes is a truely thankless job. I have been there and making everybody happy is impossible. I am just being like any other racer and looking for the best advantage I can find in the rules. There are quite a few loopholes I can see already and I am sure others will find them as well :)

I can see where you are comming from. And yes, no matter how you cut it someone isn't going to be happy. I think that perhaps a large part of the problem is that the class limitations are spelled out by specific mods. Have you guys considered making a more generalized set of rules? For example:

Pure Street: Modifications to Rear suspension allowed. Intake and tune permitted, Turbonators allowed, etc...

[boss281]

Man, we agonized over the class rules, and reached what we thought were good cutoffs between classes. Believe, it took many many rounds and getting feedback from folks in the field.

As Marc indicates, we'll take these suggestions under advisement, but if you think about it there aren't enough classes to cover every configuration. We'll keep watching how classes are filling, and make adjustments if we have to.

Keep 'em coming...

John

[qwik huh]

The rules really need a LOT more detail unless you want to leave them open for interpretation. Take a look on the NMRA site at the class rules there. It is not like anyone will build a car specifically for a class here but it would be nice to have the rules locked in at least 6 months before the event. I have LTs for my car I am not installing because I don't want to get bumped up into the next class. Who will be teching in the classes? Too many classes will hurt the event. Nobody is going to want 8 NA classes with 2-3 cars in each one.

[ArtQ]

The biggest gaping "Loophole" I see in the class rules is that they are pretty much based on the honor system.

The intention is to make this a fun street car event. The obvious things will be checked at tech, which we will be responsible for. Will we be pulling valve covers or tearing guys down? No. If you take a look at some of the weekend events put on by tracks for Mustang or Corvette days the rules are a lot more open for interpretation. MIR's World Cup for example.

The 4 classes are based loosely on natural mod progression stages most guys follow.

If you have any specific concerns or suggestions about the rules, please bring them up.

I can see a few changes that need to be made now. Such as what fuel types should be allowed being one of them.

We are working on this and plan to have it worked out to allow enough time for car prep before the event.

[boss281]

FWIW, I've delayed installing ported heads until after the race. :-(

[Deimos]

The biggest gaping "Loophole" I see in the class rules is that they are pretty much based on the honor system.

The intention is to make this a fun street car event. The obvious things will be checked at tech, which we will be responsible for. Will we be pulling valve covers or tearing guys down? No. If you take a look at some of the weekend events put on by tracks for Mustang or Corvette days the rules are a lot more open for interpretation. MIR's World Cup for example.

The 4 classes are based loosely on natural mod progression stages most guys follow.

If you have any specific concerns or suggestions about the rules, please bring them up.

I can see a few changes that need to be made now. Such as what fuel types should be allowed being one of them.

We are working on this and plan to have it worked out to allow enough time for car prep before the event.

this is what I was thinking when I suggested a general guide for the classes.

[qwik huh]

The biggest gaping "Loophole" I see in the class rules is that they are pretty much based on the honor system.


I am not talking about cheating. Loose rules leave room for certain competitive advantages that more experienced racers will find.

Honestly when this whole idea started on S197forum I was hoping for something a lot more simple. Get the fastest guys at the track and let them all go head to head and see who is left standing. No classes, no rules, just a magazine style old school stock motor shootout. John and I have both mentioned we are holding off on mods so we can be competitive in a certain class as opposed to running all out.

[boss281]

Honestly when this whole idea started on S197forum I was hoping for something a lot more simple. Get the fastest guys at the track and let them all go head to head and see who is left standing. No classes, no rules, just a magazine style old school stock motor shootout.

While it's not apparent, we spent many long hours working through options from simple to complex. We considered simple piggybacks on existing drag rental days or sponsored events, we considered a simple track rental of our own and just having fun with grudge matches, and even considered brackets, other Mustang platforms, etc.

After it all, we elected something in the middle and do something new: get the late model mod-motor Mustangs out there and have at it. If I want to run brackets I have 4 tracks (75/80 is reopening in April!!!!) in 1.5 hr driving distance and I can be competitive with anybody driving a minivan through funny car.

Believe me, we HEAR the feedback, and we DO talk about it. Right now we want to focus on this new race first, lock in the details and pay attention to the logistics. In the upcoming weeks, we will need to digest all we've heard and see if changes are necessary before we post something on the Rock's website. After that, it will likely take an act of god to change something.

Note we don't intend to have this event a one shot deal. There are lots of different ways to do this in the future, and more than one event per year is discussed frequently.

Keep the cards and letters coming, we ARE listening, and work with us even when the plans may not be exactly to your liking. But we'll try to give everyone real bang for the buck--remember, we intend to race that day too!

Sorry, sort of preachy...

John

[NCHorseplay]

Planning to run wild street with my car. I currently daily drive the car and am not able to install a roll cage. I guess I will be capped at 11.49, correct? and are longtubes legal in wild street?

[ArtQ]

Yes, 11.49 would put you over the edge. The long tubes would also be an issue as the rules are written currently. I expect to see more than a few cars in WS running sub 11.5's as the rules are written. I think if we get enough cars that fall under WS and have long tubes, this could change. Restricting the WS to no roll cage could make things very interesting and create some serious close finishes.


Keep 'em coming guys..............

[qwik huh]

Restricting the WS to no roll cage could make things very interesting and create some serious close finishes.


Keep 'em coming guys..............


Do you really want cars with skinnies slamming on the brakes at 120+ so they don't break the 11.49 barrier? If the race is heads up then is should be run heads up. If you want to go faster than 11.49 you should have the proper safety equipment to do so. To compromise safety to control speed in a class is a really bad idea....

[MarcSpaz]

Do you really want cars with skinnies slamming on the brakes at 120+ so they don't break the 11.49 barrier? If the race is heads up then is should be run heads up. If you want to go faster than 11.49 you should have the proper safety equipment to do so. To compromise safety to control speed in a class is a really bad idea....


No one in WS is going to be permitted to run skinnies. Also, I think Art's statement was general. We are using the IHRA hand book as a guide for regs. Both our staff as well as track officials will bounce a driver in a heart-beat if they don't have the right safety equipment.

[chad05gt]

FWIW, I've delayed installing ported heads until after the race. :-(



you suck!:p LOL...

yea, that ported head class will have cars from low 12's to...10's; possibly lower!

Yup... gonna be ugly!

[qwik huh]

No one in WS is going to be permitted to run skinnies. Also, I think Art's statement was general. We are using the IHRA hand book as a guide for regs. Both our staff as well as track officials will bounce a driver in a heart-beat if they don't have the right safety equipment.

Either way restrictions based on safety equipment are a bad idea. There should be no break out point in any class. If it is head up racing you should be allowed to go as fast as possible within the rules.

[MarcSpaz]

Either way restrictions based on safety equipment are a bad idea. There should be no break out point in any class. If it is head up racing you should be allowed to go as fast as possible within the rules.

Yup, I agree. We are going to run a heads-up event, no index, no break-out rules.

BUT, drivers need to know that we want them ALL to go home with their family at the end of the day. So, we have to enforce the safety rules based on the individual vehicles ET...

[John@BlowByRacing.com]

So even for the forced induction cars, you have to run no more than 93 octane?

[boss281]

I'm catching up on FGR email now and there is some discussion about the fuel issue. Not yet resolved but we are looking at it...

John

[germansheperd]

Any revisions for ported heads being allowed in MS?

[ArtQ]

We will work that out................

[boss281]

I will say this one has me stumped...

[germansheperd]

We will work that out................
ok let me know

[ArtQ]

Any of the guys with head work, Is your race weight over 3600 lbs? (With driver)

[chad05gt]

We will work that out................




< snoopy dance >


3620 w/ me in the car (200)w/ jack and spare out, no sway bar, BUT with bullett stockers w/ dr's
...havent weighed the car w/ Jegs 15" wheels and ET Streets yet...(@-70).

guessing car race weight 3350ish?

Ill get on the scale at Houston Raceway Park on March 13th and get an update w/ wheels.

[germansheperd]

Any of the guys with head work, Is your race weight over 3600 lbs? (With driver)cant give you an exact weight but in a full weight AUTO GT with the front swaybar removed,with stock 17" wheels on all 4 corners and me weighing 200+ id have to say yes easily over 3600.

[NCHorseplay]

So are longtubes still out for Wild Street?

This is my mod list
Saleen Supercharger 5.5psi (will have more boost)
Extreme Intake (will upgrade to full CAI)
Hooker longtubes
Catted x-pipe
Corsa Axle back
1 piece driveshaft
adjustable pandhard bar
Hurst shifter
Eibach springs

I will be running a better set of wheels are tires. I am guessing stock 17's with Drag Radials since big and little's seem out of the question. I plan to install rear suspension and maybe even an Anti Roll Bar. I am just worried about being way behind in Outlaw Class since this is my daily driver for now and isn't pushed nearly as far as they are.

[MarcSpaz]

You would be in the Street Outlaw class due to the exhaust. On FI applications, mid and long tube headers are well known to produce 40+ RWHP over the stock exhaust.

[ArtQ]

So are longtubes still out for Wild Street?

This is my mod list
Saleen Supercharger 5.5psi (will have more boost)
Extreme Intake (will upgrade to full CAI)
Hooker longtubes
Catted x-pipe
Corsa Axle back
1 piece driveshaft
adjustable pandhard bar
Hurst shifter
Eibach springs

I will be running a better set of wheels are tires. I am guessing stock 17's with Drag Radials since big and little's seem out of the question. I plan to install rear suspension and maybe even an Anti Roll Bar. I am just worried about being way behind in Outlaw Class since this is my daily driver for now and isn't pushed nearly as far as they are.

Just trying to get a feel for the guys that are interested.

Are you running a stock block?

Thanks for the feedback.

[NCHorseplay]

yes i am running all stock long block. have not cracked a valve cover on it and i am pretty sure the long block was never touched before i bought it.

Yeah I understand where you are coming from Marc, I just haven't seen very many people putting shorties on these cars especially forced induction cars.

[NCHorseplay]

any new updates? anything new going on at all? Want to register but want to make sure I am in the right class and that I won't go out there and be 3 seconds behind everyone else.

[ArtQ]

Draft changes are submitted for review and will be out very soon.

[chad05gt]

This is a BIG snag for us guys realllly wanting to make the trip that are 1000 miles away, and are personally financed...

I got to lookin... isnt it Fuk'n sometimes http://www.rangebuzz.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/snow-scene.jpgthen..???:eek:

[NCHorseplay]

in North Carolina? No way. We are lucky to get snow at all and surely not in November. Our snow doesn't even begin to come into the picture until January. Christmas snow has only happened 1 or 2 times in my almost 30 years on this earth. It will probably be in the 50's or 60's that day.

[ArtQ]

in North Carolina? No way. We are lucky to get snow at all and surely not in November. Our snow doesn't even begin to come into the picture until January. Christmas snow has only happened 1 or 2 times in my almost 30 years on this earth. It will probably be in the 50's or 60's that day.


OH Boy.......Now you did it.:(

[chad05gt]

Im just trying to make a point;
for me... this will be a week vacation drive/trailer there, race, back... if it snows....:mad:


...there's gonna be a sub 12sec Mineral Grey snowmobile f'n up the slopes!!!!:p

[germansheperd]

any ideas when they will be out?

[NCHorseplay]

OH Boy.......Now you did it.:(

yeah i know i had to go open my big mouth huh. i don't think we have anything to worry about.

[ArtQ]

Class rules updated 3/25/09

[NCHorseplay]

well it looks like i fall right into Wild Street. Right where I wanted to be. Hopefully an 11.50 will be respectable in that class. Now to go find some factory 17's for the front and some 17x9's for the rear.

[radmustangs]

Looking good!

[qwik huh]

I think the rules look really good guys!

I would like to see the sway bar delete allowed in ST. If removal of the sway bar is allowed then the sway bar delete should be allowed IMHO. Besides that I think you guys did a good job.

[2k05gt]

I think the rules look really good guys!

I would like to see the sway bar delete allowed in ST. If removal of the sway bar is allowed then the sway bar delete should be allowed IMHO. Besides that I think you guys did a good job.

Isn't that the same thing? Sway bar removed is deleting the swaybar.

[chad05gt]

any chance pnp head stock bottom end in SS...

With all these stroker/big bore's comming out... we dont have much of a shot:(

[ArtQ]

SST is stock bottom with ported heads.

[chad05gt]

SST is stock bottom with ported heads.

OIC vrry nIcE:D

[qwik huh]

Isn't that the same thing? Sway bar removed is deleting the swaybar.


The sway bar delete bracket removes the sway bar and replaces the heavy rad support bracket it mounts with using a much lighter piece.

[2005mach1]

"all lights operative"- 2 front lights and both tail lights?
I have a gt-2 headlights and 2 fog lights-do all 4 lights need to work?
Or can I have any 2-perferably the 2 fogs

I think I would end up in MODIFIED STREET?
my modds are:
C&L cold air
underdrive pulleys
intake delete plates
Mac Long tubes
PI stall convertor
3.73 gears
1 pc drive shaft
adjustable upper control arm
adjustable lower control arms
lower control arm relocation brackets
front swaybar delete with lightweight support
adjustable d specs on all 4 corners
4.5" wide skinnies in front
M and H bias ply cheater slicks in the rear
battery in the trunk
rear seat delete

[MarcSpaz]

Hey! Welcome to the forum! Glad you are interested in the event.

The head lights and tail lights must work, but do not need to be on while competing.

We will review each entry in brief once the classes a closed for mods. As it stands right now, your setup would put you in Modified Street.

[2k05gt]

Welcome 2005Mach1, Nice setup you got there. You should see 12.7 soon

The street classes are for everyday street cars, thats what this event is about, It give us guys who have street cars a chance to compete in an all out racing event and not get Killed by Trailered beasts.

Rockingham is a great track ( It's Called Carolina's Fast Track) When I first started racing back when I bought my 05, I raced at "The Rock" and ran my three best times there.

[2005mach1]

Thanks
so my ram air headlight must go for this event--bummer
I drive my car about 6000 miles a summer-it a street car but not my daliy driver

I'am hoping for 12.35-12.45 this year

I'am pretty new, what is a guess at ET's for Modified Street?

[2k05gt]

Thanks
so my ram air headlight must go for this event--bummer
I drive my car about 6000 miles a summer-it a street car but not my daliy driver

I'am hoping for 12.35-12.45 this year

I'am pretty new, what is a guess at ET's for Modified Street?

No problem, I drive mine only when the weather is nice, I drove it once in the snow, I wiped out, so No Snow, no Rain.. I have a Silverado Z71 for that stuff..

[2005mach1]

what is a guess at ET's for Modified Street?

[ArtQ]

Could be high 11's low 12's depending on weather/Density Altitude

[2k05gt]

what is a guess at ET's for Modified Street?

Low 12's maybe very high 11's. I will not see 11's unless I loose some weight both from me and the car. The only mods thats will put me in this class is CAMS and Converter. other than that I can remain in the Street class.

Without cams I am averaging 12.4 with cams I may be 12.2 so I hope to see alot of 12.3-5 cars in MS

[2005mach1]

Thanks
I hope to be 12.3-12.4 no cams or heads

[2k05gt]

Thanks
I hope to be 12.3-12.4 no cams or heads

Thats where I am now so I can't see why not.

[boss281]

Wait a minute. Scott are you telling me you DON'T have cams?????

[2k05gt]

Wait a minute. Scott are you telling me you DON'T have cams?????

You know I don't have aftermarket cams.. I have the stock cams, heads and all. the motor is 100% stock just bolt-ons and 3500 stall
Your joking right !! LOL ....

[boss281]

Oh that's right. You have that hidden gas bottle in the door panel, and spray happy gas about the 1000 foot mark. I have to keep reminding myself WHY YOU HAVE A FRICKING 12.29!!!!!!!

[2k05gt]

Yea got a "sneeky pete" under the intake manifold.. LOL
I hate that stuff, My car has 68,300 miles on it, I don;t think it could take
a shot of happy gas...

I run mid-low 12's because of 2 things...
Low DA, I love running in low humidity and temps at MIR :D
and I have an Automatic, The 5R55S trans is very stout and can deliver ;)

[2005mach1]

Yea got a "sneeky pete" under the intake manifold.. LOL
I hate that stuff, My car has 68,300 miles on it, I don;t think it could take
a shot of happy gas...

I run mid-low 12's because of 2 things...
Low DA, I love running in low humidity and temps at MIR :D
and I have an Automatic, The 5R55S trans is very stout and can deliver ;)



I agree
I love my 5r55

[chad05gt]

Yea got a "sneeky pete" under the intake manifold.. LOL
I hate that stuff, My car has 68,300 miles on it, I don;t think it could take
a shot of happy gas...

I run mid-low 12's because of 2 things...
Low DA, I love running in low humidity and temps at MIR :D
and I have an Automatic, The 5R55S trans is very stout and can deliver ;)



OIC...:p

Nice!